tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-310633442210374868.post1300503385527535164..comments2023-03-29T09:40:29.908-04:00Comments on Frum Heretic: Kol Isha ApologeticsFrum Heretichttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17815538809825229710noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-310633442210374868.post-64346306338794502812009-03-01T11:21:00.000-05:002009-03-01T11:21:00.000-05:00Yeah, I mistyped and said 600 BCE instead of late ...Yeah, I mistyped and said 600 BCE instead of late 6th century BCE (per Kugel). The return under Cyrus the Great dates to 537 BCE.Frum Heretichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17815538809825229710noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-310633442210374868.post-66095412940559471212009-03-01T10:24:00.000-05:002009-03-01T10:24:00.000-05:00Yes, I'm familiar with Kugel, so this is important...Yes, I'm familiar with Kugel, so this is important. You probably mean about 400 BCE, since 600 BCE was still First Temple Era, and that would not explain the Persian terms in Kohelet. 400-450 BCE is about the time Kugel sets it if I remember correctly. And as to your second point, I haven't found the classical commentators dealing with this, though this may be to the general obscurity of Kohelet as compared to Samuel.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-310633442210374868.post-58906438111719040442009-03-01T09:24:00.000-05:002009-03-01T09:24:00.000-05:00Thanks for that reference; it's especially interes...Thanks for that reference; it's especially interesting for two reasons.<BR/><BR/>First, שָׁרִים וְשָׁרוֹת is the exact terminology as used in the 2 Shmuel.<BR/><BR/>Second, the historical-critical approach dates Kohelet to at least 400 years after the death of Solomon (see Kugel's HTRTB, p 513-14). So it seems that kol isha wasn't a problem in 600 BCE.<BR/><BR/>I don't have any commentary on Kohelet at hand. I'd be interested in how meforshim treat this pasuk (and am willing to bet that they make all kinds of apologetics for King Sol even though we know that he violated Torah prohibitions. See also <A HREF="http://frumheretic.blogspot.com/2008/09/whip-him-good.html" REL="nofollow">Whip Him Good</A>.)Frum Heretichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17815538809825229710noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-310633442210374868.post-86737656060235913182009-02-28T21:22:00.000-05:002009-02-28T21:22:00.000-05:00Good post.I noticed that the link you have fails t...Good post.<BR/><BR/>I noticed that the link you have fails to mention the following source in Ecclesiastes 2:8<BR/>כָּנַסְתִּי לִי גַּם-כֶּסֶף וְזָהָב, וּסְגֻלַּת מְלָכִים וְהַמְּדִינוֹת; עָשִׂיתִי לִי שָׁרִים וְשָׁרוֹת, וְתַעֲנֻגוֹת בְּנֵי הָאָדָם--שִׁדָּה וְשִׁדּוֹת.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com