tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-310633442210374868.post2863499126430088077..comments2023-03-29T09:40:29.908-04:00Comments on Frum Heretic: Learning Gemara - Process Versus ContentFrum Heretichttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17815538809825229710noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-310633442210374868.post-47945130774697999762008-08-11T09:16:00.000-04:002008-08-11T09:16:00.000-04:00slave - but of course that's not what LEARNING is ...slave - but of course that's not what <B>LEARNING</B> is all about! You are treating the Talmud as a historical document that contains interesting information which can be gleaned by perusing an Artscroll or Soncino. This is completely at odds with the Yeshiva understanding of the Oral Law as well as their methodology for studying it. <BR/><BR/>Anyway, your approach is probably one that I should remember whenever I start gritting my teeth while learning.Frum Heretichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17815538809825229710noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-310633442210374868.post-60174251809198482962008-08-05T11:39:00.000-04:002008-08-05T11:39:00.000-04:00I too have found Gemara somewhat tedious...perhaps...I too have found Gemara somewhat tedious...perhaps because I study not because I am interested in Gemara or Mishnah but because I am interested in the bits of light it can shine on ancient world-views and social customs, ancient history, ancient theological perspectives, ancient textual and linguistic understandings, and so forth.slaveofonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17493574936843969520noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-310633442210374868.post-2694437100303502152008-07-29T07:57:00.000-04:002008-07-29T07:57:00.000-04:00AgnosticWriter - you raise some interesting compar...AgnosticWriter - you raise some interesting comparisons between the yeshiva and academic worlds. We should keep in mind that one of the major differences is that in the yeshiva world, the be-all and end-all is understanding gemara. One's status is largely based upon how skilled one is at spitting back the discussions of sages from 2000 years ago and understanding how the Rishonim and Acharonim explained those discussions. People are discouraged in cultivating interests outside of this area. Innovation and truly new insights are reserved for certain rarified geniuses because - for the most part - it's all been said before.<BR/><BR/>BTW, while there are "ideologically driven people" in academia, I didn't have this experience in grad school (either because I was blind to it or because my field in the hard sciences didn't cultivate this type of mindset.)Frum Heretichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17815538809825229710noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-310633442210374868.post-44805823120440365262008-07-28T19:58:00.000-04:002008-07-28T19:58:00.000-04:00"gemara is search for the truth."Yeah, and so is s..."gemara is search for the truth."<BR/><BR/>Yeah, and so is science.<BR/><BR/>Anyway, what truth have you found in gemara? Be specific please.Frum Heretichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17815538809825229710noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-310633442210374868.post-35155184356545939642008-07-28T06:13:00.000-04:002008-07-28T06:13:00.000-04:00gemara is search for the truth.gemara is search for the truth.Avraham https://www.blogger.com/profile/07822433921393627746noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-310633442210374868.post-69176830494645053632008-07-27T12:43:00.000-04:002008-07-27T12:43:00.000-04:00FH,During all my yeshivah years (and they were man...FH,<BR/><BR/>During all my yeshivah years (and they were many) I had the similar experience of finding the Gemara's subject matter a distasteful combination of generally irrelevant and tedious, sometimes offensive, and not rarely odd. <BR/><BR/>And, of course, when some entertaining Agadata passage presented itself--with opportunities for discussion of philosophy, imaginative spirituality, and the like--it was usually rushed through in order to get to the "important" stuff: more archaic legalism in the next "real" sugya. <BR/><BR/>But this kind of unsatisfying curriculum isn't limited to yeshivos. Not only are secular schools filled with students who find (notwithstanding its potential real-life usefulness) memorizing the rules of grammar or formulas of algebra maddeningly boring, even in grad school I was forced to take equally maddening courses on diversity, etc., not to mention on the long-dead history of my professional field. <BR/><BR/>In short: a mixture of pointy-headed academics (who find certain kinds of learning interesting that the rest of us find boring) and ideologically driven people (religious or educational or activist leaders) with the power to set curricula, determine what the great majority of us are subjected to in our formal education. <BR/><BR/>In the end, we must find what interests us, or what is important for us to learn, and find ways of learning it that hold our attention. I think it was Twain who said: "I worked hard not to let schooling get in the way of my education." <BR/><BR/>AgnosticWriterAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com