tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-310633442210374868.post6183668680498459085..comments2023-03-29T09:40:29.908-04:00Comments on Frum Heretic: The Science of KashrusFrum Heretichttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17815538809825229710noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-310633442210374868.post-87785421381486020632010-01-24T23:31:53.622-05:002010-01-24T23:31:53.622-05:00But even if the water was completely distilled as ...But even if the water was completely distilled as per chemical engineer it would still be considered milchik or flaishik as per its previous stateShlomonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-310633442210374868.post-86572879170226318642010-01-24T15:25:57.343-05:002010-01-24T15:25:57.343-05:00Check out this discussion: http://koltorah.org/rav...Check out this discussion: http://koltorah.org/ravj/milkmeatoven.htm<br /><br />It isn't just Rabbi Abbadi that is lenient! Aruch Hashulchan and Rabbi Hershel Schachter allow consecutive cook of milk and meat uncovered (I presume, since RMF's opinion is brought also, and he says that one pot should be covered.)zdubhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06642047900508041723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-310633442210374868.post-65621580174979480492010-01-24T15:11:23.761-05:002010-01-24T15:11:23.761-05:00Anonymous Chemical Engineer, thanks for your thoug...Anonymous Chemical Engineer, thanks for your thoughtful comments. Also keep in mind that bitul is ultimately based on taste, so that even if taste were imparted by 1 in 10,000 it would considered significant.Frum Heretichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17815538809825229710noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-310633442210374868.post-20450088139056786322010-01-24T15:06:42.739-05:002010-01-24T15:06:42.739-05:00Yeah, doesn't make too much sense. Even given ...Yeah, doesn't make too much sense. Even given Chemical Engineer Anonymous' comment, there would certainly be bitul. It's probably just a gezerah with no scientific basis.<br /><br />I wonder if water distilled from milk in the laboratory is still considered milchig?!zachnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-310633442210374868.post-37582733882007011362010-01-24T15:01:24.866-05:002010-01-24T15:01:24.866-05:00I really can't answer your question because I&...I really can't answer your question because I've never tried to evaluate the distillate of either milk nor meat vapors. I am not sure one could taste milk or meat flavors in condensed vapors. Nonetheless, I would not say that it is beyond reason that one could assume that vapor might have some flavor. Remember much of what they are doing are thought exercises. Similarly, I haven't a clue whether on fifty-ninth milk/meat mixture tastes different than a one sixtieth mixture.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-310633442210374868.post-14617991234444477892010-01-24T14:33:44.335-05:002010-01-24T14:33:44.335-05:00Thanks for the clarification and correction on my ...Thanks for the clarification and correction on my oversimplification. I am aware that we are not talking about a precise distillation process here. So tell me, what kind of milk products - and how much of it - could one expect to find in a (poorly) distilled milk vapor? Could one taste it or detect it by other than a sophisticated analytical process, such as a gas chromatograph? Regardless of how little there is, it still has the status of milk or meat. <br /><br />(Also by way of clarification since you mentioned smell, folks should realize that volatiles that impart smell are measured in parts per million and parts per billion. Amounts that are otherwise never an issue in kashrus. Unless, of course, such a minute amount actually imparted a taste. But let's ignore smell and stick to actual meat or milk compounds in a condensed vapor.)Frum Heretichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17815538809825229710noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-310633442210374868.post-67462024766213522202010-01-24T11:37:02.365-05:002010-01-24T11:37:02.365-05:00As a chemical engineer with almost two decades of ...As a chemical engineer with almost two decades of work experience, I feel I can address distillation as your approach is oversimplified. In distillation, components having higher volitilities are evaporated from solution and then condensed into a solution having a higher volitility. The chemicals that give food its taste and smell are known as esters and are molecules with varying degrees of volititity.<br /><br />To separate esters from water vapor one would require a distillation column in which different volitilities are separated from each other. An oven in the presented scenario, however, is a batch distillation and is incapable of separting all, or even the majority, of esters from the condensed water vapor. To do so, one would have to run the ove over several warm-up/cool-down cycles.<br /><br />Therefore, one is left with a modified milk or meat vapor that then condenses. If, however, we could a distillation could, one plate (see bubble plate distillation) would be pure water while other plates would be a combination of water and food flavor.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-310633442210374868.post-14147519588994056892010-01-24T11:15:58.434-05:002010-01-24T11:15:58.434-05:00Come on! It works just like homeopathy where the w...Come on! It works just like homeopathy where the water magically retains knowledge of its pre-dilution state!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com